<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: When SOA Fails, Just SCA</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.jpmorgenthal.com/morgenthal/?feed=rss2&#038;p=87" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.jpmorgenthal.com/morgenthal/?p=87</link>
	<description>Leading IT Innovation One Blog Entry At  A Time</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 12 Jul 2010 09:05:24 -0400</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: PD Malik</title>
		<link>http://www.jpmorgenthal.com/morgenthal/?p=87&#038;cpage=1#comment-1582</link>
		<dc:creator>PD Malik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 18:45:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jpmorgenthal.com/morgenthal/?p=87#comment-1582</guid>
		<description>Some Good Points JP - Thanks for sharing. Totally agree with them.

I wish every organization had used this more strategical approach as mentioned by yourself but I see many organizations still getting influenced by these vendors who use these buzz words to sell their expensive products (and even services if they are able to) to the ignorant and confused IT/Business senior executives. 

So a practical question : What should a SOA Architect/Designer do if he is working on a SOA project where SOA is not a strategical solution but just tactical/project level &quot;IT&quot; Solution &quot;sold&quot; by vendors and SCA is vendors promoted SODA/SOBA implementation/development methodology? You probably would agree that there are lots of such places and the role of SOA Architect is just limited to a tactical Solution Architect and Organization is not ready and yet prepared to listen to and think in a Strategical SOA way. Should s/he take a bold (and revolutionary to some extent) decision to just design simple SOA services using the vendors tools? OR s/he should make the best use of SCA to build the services as &quot;SOAed&quot; as possible keeping in my mind that the complexity introduced by SCA is not just an architectural complexity instead could even be a runtime complexity becs introducing unnecessary layers in a software design means more iterations or pass thru points at runtime which may well have some performance impact as well.

Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some Good Points JP &#8211; Thanks for sharing. Totally agree with them.</p>
<p>I wish every organization had used this more strategical approach as mentioned by yourself but I see many organizations still getting influenced by these vendors who use these buzz words to sell their expensive products (and even services if they are able to) to the ignorant and confused IT/Business senior executives. </p>
<p>So a practical question : What should a SOA Architect/Designer do if he is working on a SOA project where SOA is not a strategical solution but just tactical/project level &#8220;IT&#8221; Solution &#8220;sold&#8221; by vendors and SCA is vendors promoted SODA/SOBA implementation/development methodology? You probably would agree that there are lots of such places and the role of SOA Architect is just limited to a tactical Solution Architect and Organization is not ready and yet prepared to listen to and think in a Strategical SOA way. Should s/he take a bold (and revolutionary to some extent) decision to just design simple SOA services using the vendors tools? OR s/he should make the best use of SCA to build the services as &#8220;SOAed&#8221; as possible keeping in my mind that the complexity introduced by SCA is not just an architectural complexity instead could even be a runtime complexity becs introducing unnecessary layers in a software design means more iterations or pass thru points at runtime which may well have some performance impact as well.</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: mujtaba ahmed</title>
		<link>http://www.jpmorgenthal.com/morgenthal/?p=87&#038;cpage=1#comment-387</link>
		<dc:creator>mujtaba ahmed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 23:48:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jpmorgenthal.com/morgenthal/?p=87#comment-387</guid>
		<description>Good Points!

Actually I am trying to provide approaches with some IBM tools to achieve productivity. And we have to overlook the practices recommended by the vendor with the ones deviced by us. Just doing this our whole of SOA governance has got streamlined.

I truely agree with your views and have personally experienced in around 4-5 projects till now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good Points!</p>
<p>Actually I am trying to provide approaches with some IBM tools to achieve productivity. And we have to overlook the practices recommended by the vendor with the ones deviced by us. Just doing this our whole of SOA governance has got streamlined.</p>
<p>I truely agree with your views and have personally experienced in around 4-5 projects till now.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: JP Morgenthal</title>
		<link>http://www.jpmorgenthal.com/morgenthal/?p=87&#038;cpage=1#comment-335</link>
		<dc:creator>JP Morgenthal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Aug 2009 17:37:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jpmorgenthal.com/morgenthal/?p=87#comment-335</guid>
		<description>Nic,

   I&#039;m not 100% sure what you meant by including SOA in the integration list.  SOA is not about integration, it&#039;s about the alignment of business function into a services model that may be provided using technology, but is not required.

JP</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nic,</p>
<p>   I&#8217;m not 100% sure what you meant by including SOA in the integration list.  SOA is not about integration, it&#8217;s about the alignment of business function into a services model that may be provided using technology, but is not required.</p>
<p>JP</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nic Harvard</title>
		<link>http://www.jpmorgenthal.com/morgenthal/?p=87&#038;cpage=1#comment-334</link>
		<dc:creator>Nic Harvard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Aug 2009 17:27:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jpmorgenthal.com/morgenthal/?p=87#comment-334</guid>
		<description>Integration is not equal to architecture.
Architecture always exists - it might be bad, not understood, inflexible, but it always exists.
Integration (EAI, EII, SOA whatever flavour you like) may or may not exist, and it&#039;squality and TCO may vary.

SOA (done right) is certainly one of the best (easiest, most cost effective, most adaptable, etc) integration methods I have seen yet, and also one that is most amenable to re-archtecting initiatives.

I&#039;m not sure exactly what this SCA beast is yet - it must be a fairly new vendor-led buzzword designed to sell otherwise non-moving lines of products and services:)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Integration is not equal to architecture.<br />
Architecture always exists &#8211; it might be bad, not understood, inflexible, but it always exists.<br />
Integration (EAI, EII, SOA whatever flavour you like) may or may not exist, and it&#8217;squality and TCO may vary.</p>
<p>SOA (done right) is certainly one of the best (easiest, most cost effective, most adaptable, etc) integration methods I have seen yet, and also one that is most amenable to re-archtecting initiatives.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure exactly what this SCA beast is yet &#8211; it must be a fairly new vendor-led buzzword designed to sell otherwise non-moving lines of products and services:)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: JP Morgenthal</title>
		<link>http://www.jpmorgenthal.com/morgenthal/?p=87&#038;cpage=1#comment-262</link>
		<dc:creator>JP Morgenthal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 20:17:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jpmorgenthal.com/morgenthal/?p=87#comment-262</guid>
		<description>Tom,  I agree with your points about needing enterprise integration points defined, but don&#039;t see that SCA is the best tool to gain that advantage.  I&#039;m not supporting SCA in this piece, so I don&#039;t exactly understand how your comment fits in with this thread.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom,  I agree with your points about needing enterprise integration points defined, but don&#8217;t see that SCA is the best tool to gain that advantage.  I&#8217;m not supporting SCA in this piece, so I don&#8217;t exactly understand how your comment fits in with this thread.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tom Tinsley</title>
		<link>http://www.jpmorgenthal.com/morgenthal/?p=87&#038;cpage=1#comment-261</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Tinsley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 20:10:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jpmorgenthal.com/morgenthal/?p=87#comment-261</guid>
		<description>Udayan, you make some very good points. Yet, they seem to all be focused on technology issues and senior technologists running the show. 

I believe that Enterprise Architecture is primarily about the business. SCA can provide an excellent standard for defining enterprise integration points, since it requires the definition of both services and all service references.

Imagine having all of an organization&#039;s integration points so well defined that the flow of information or the steps of processes could be tracked and reported. Corporate management could begin having a better understanding of IT complexity resulting in better decisions.

I believe helping management make better decisions is part of our CAEAP oath.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Udayan, you make some very good points. Yet, they seem to all be focused on technology issues and senior technologists running the show. </p>
<p>I believe that Enterprise Architecture is primarily about the business. SCA can provide an excellent standard for defining enterprise integration points, since it requires the definition of both services and all service references.</p>
<p>Imagine having all of an organization&#8217;s integration points so well defined that the flow of information or the steps of processes could be tracked and reported. Corporate management could begin having a better understanding of IT complexity resulting in better decisions.</p>
<p>I believe helping management make better decisions is part of our CAEAP oath.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Point-counterpoint: Is SCA the limit? &#124; Service-Oriented Architecture &#124; ZDNet.com</title>
		<link>http://www.jpmorgenthal.com/morgenthal/?p=87&#038;cpage=1#comment-248</link>
		<dc:creator>Point-counterpoint: Is SCA the limit? &#124; Service-Oriented Architecture &#124; ZDNet.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 03:45:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jpmorgenthal.com/morgenthal/?p=87#comment-248</guid>
		<description>[...] To sum up, there are two points of view on the efficacy of SCA: Anti-SCA: &#8220;SCA is heavily being driven by the vendor community and SCA breaks many of the rules of SOA that have been touted by these same vendors for the past six years&#8230;. SCA is a step backwards in software engineering.  It’s an abandonment of the SOA principles that have failed because of lack of investment in proper architecture toward a pure programming model driven by software engineers.  Thus, the goal here is once again to allow poorly-designed systems to be built by software engineers with very little architecture experience so they can claim to have some attributes of SOA.&#8221; -JP Morganthal [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] To sum up, there are two points of view on the efficacy of SCA: Anti-SCA: &#8220;SCA is heavily being driven by the vendor community and SCA breaks many of the rules of SOA that have been touted by these same vendors for the past six years&#8230;. SCA is a step backwards in software engineering.  It’s an abandonment of the SOA principles that have failed because of lack of investment in proper architecture toward a pure programming model driven by software engineers.  Thus, the goal here is once again to allow poorly-designed systems to be built by software engineers with very little architecture experience so they can claim to have some attributes of SOA.&#8221; -JP Morganthal [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Service Component Architecture (SCA): truth and misconceptions &#124; VOSibilities BPMS and BPM blog and podcast from Active Endpoints and ActiveVOS</title>
		<link>http://www.jpmorgenthal.com/morgenthal/?p=87&#038;cpage=1#comment-188</link>
		<dc:creator>Service Component Architecture (SCA): truth and misconceptions &#124; VOSibilities BPMS and BPM blog and podcast from Active Endpoints and ActiveVOS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 19:35:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jpmorgenthal.com/morgenthal/?p=87#comment-188</guid>
		<description>[...] saw the announcement of the Understanding SCA book (which I co-authored), it prompted him to post his thoughts on the problems with SCA. He developed his thoughts during a recent investigation into SCA, but his [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] saw the announcement of the Understanding SCA book (which I co-authored), it prompted him to post his thoughts on the problems with SCA. He developed his thoughts during a recent investigation into SCA, but his [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Contract Management Software &#124; All Days Long</title>
		<link>http://www.jpmorgenthal.com/morgenthal/?p=87&#038;cpage=1#comment-186</link>
		<dc:creator>Contract Management Software &#124; All Days Long</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 13:52:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jpmorgenthal.com/morgenthal/?p=87#comment-186</guid>
		<description>[...]  When SOA Fails, Just SCA – The Tech Evangelist  By JP Morgenthal  For example, SCA rewards an implied contract versus a contract-first approach to service development. That is, the contract is derived from the programming model versus defined by the architects. What&#039;s going on here? &#8230; Unfortunately, the requirements for the application their on call for pure workflow management, not integration. Which leads me to my next point, all software needs to be properly designed by an architect. Software engineers build, architects design. &#8230;   The Tech Evangelist &#8211; http://www.jpmorgenthal.com/morgenthal/ [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  When SOA Fails, Just SCA – The Tech Evangelist  By JP Morgenthal  For example, SCA rewards an implied contract versus a contract-first approach to service development. That is, the contract is derived from the programming model versus defined by the architects. What&#39;s going on here? &#8230; Unfortunately, the requirements for the application their on call for pure workflow management, not integration. Which leads me to my next point, all software needs to be properly designed by an architect. Software engineers build, architects design. &#8230;   The Tech Evangelist &#8211; <a href="http://www.jpmorgenthal.com/morgenthal/" rel="nofollow">http://www.jpmorgenthal.com/morgenthal/</a> [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: JP Morgenthal</title>
		<link>http://www.jpmorgenthal.com/morgenthal/?p=87&#038;cpage=1#comment-184</link>
		<dc:creator>JP Morgenthal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 12:16:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jpmorgenthal.com/morgenthal/?p=87#comment-184</guid>
		<description>Udayan, these are very pragmatic management decisions.  Put the right people in the right seats on the bus and you will be successful.  Technology is such a small component of success.  Selecting the wrong people, based on the wrong criteria is a primary cause for failure.  Over the years, I&#039;ve been asked by senior SD managers to review the work of their teams because they don&#039;t believe the reasons for their team&#039;s failure to deliver as expected.  The fact that these SD managers didn&#039;t have an in-house resource leading design and providing this insight was a major flaw in their business strategy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Udayan, these are very pragmatic management decisions.  Put the right people in the right seats on the bus and you will be successful.  Technology is such a small component of success.  Selecting the wrong people, based on the wrong criteria is a primary cause for failure.  Over the years, I&#8217;ve been asked by senior SD managers to review the work of their teams because they don&#8217;t believe the reasons for their team&#8217;s failure to deliver as expected.  The fact that these SD managers didn&#8217;t have an in-house resource leading design and providing this insight was a major flaw in their business strategy.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
